Intriguing article and information. Personally, I have become convinced that the mammoths were flash frozen at the onset of Noah's deluge. If, as is postulated, the earth fauted down what are now the mid-oceanic trenches and huge plumes and geysers of water were ejected high into the stratosphere... upon reaching the cryosphere they would have frozen to hundreds of degrees below the freezing point of water, and caused catastrophic blizzards that would have rapidly entombed the animals. But then how did the ice survive the ensuing flooding and volcanism??? Probably by being quickly buried in ash.
My theory would be substantiated by drilling below the yedoma permafrost and examining the underlying strata. If it is mostly sediments, that would be puzzling. But if it were igneous or dolomites, that is what I would expect.
The sedimentary rock formed mostly during the Great Flood and apparently a little more was deposited in a later Flood when the Ice Sheet melted. Mike Fischer's NewGeology.us site has the best explanation for how Pangaea broke up. He thinks it broke up a few centuries after the Great Flood, but I think Oard and others have it right about the timing, that it was late in the Great Flood. Fischer has the cause right, IMO, that an asteroid struck Pangaea just east of Africa. The mountains formed as the continents were splitting apart and as they later stopped sliding. The Earth's mantle is thousands of kilometers thick. Oard and others think the mantle was caused to have convection currents that moved the continents apart, but Fischer's idea makes better sense, that the continents slid on the Moho layer, so only the crust had to move in places, not the entire mantle. But Oard seems to be right that impact and volcanic dust caused gradual cooling, so the ice sheets built up gradually over about 500 years. After 300 or more years the mammoths froze to death. A few hundred years later the ice sheets melted due to more impacts etc.
Brown had some good info on the origin of Earth's radioactivity and a few other things. His hydroplate model is somewhat compatible with Mike Fischer's model for partly explaining how the continents first split apart, but Brown neglected to consider that impacts would be a better starter than supercritical water under the crust.
Actually I don't really favor any particular theory. I'm just trying to look at the field evidence and drawing conclusions from there. When it comes to the mammoths and rhinos, it is just blatantly obvious these critters were flash frozen. Examination of the stomach contents shows they were munching amid a lush environment full of beans and other vegetables and were suddenly buried in snow and ice that was so cold it froze them so quickly that not even several hours of decay occurred, and digestion of stomach contents stopped almost instantaneously.
Given all we know about natural history, I can conjure no natural- even a volcanic or meteorlogical event several orders of magnitude greater than those occurring today that could have caused this other than the flood itself. I am highly skeptical of any theory that this could have happened at any time after the early stages of Noah's deluge, all other field studies notwithstanding.
I am aware of other tremendous events that occurred post-deluge, such as the carving out of the Grand Canyon and Eastern Washington scablands by catastrophic runoff of glacial melt, and the vast lava flows of New Mexico, testimony to tremendous volcanism. But none of these events could have produced blizzard conditions that would have frozen the mammoths.
My best postulate at this point is that the mammoths were flash frozen during the early stages of the flood and trapped in large chunks of ice and debris that was somehow preserved during the flood year, perhaps as huge ice bergs floating upon the waves insulated by vegetation mats or maybe insulated by layers of peat while being buried in sediment by ashfalls that subsequently were washed away.
Sometimes it is almost humorous to read the various theories of creation scientists and other "young earth cosmologists". It is not so much that I adhere to some sort of "Big Bang" model, which I find utterly laughable, but even some well known creation scientists, such as the author of "Earth's Catastrophic Past" (Which I recommend to many) seem so cocksure that Galileo's heliocentric model and even a "globe earth" is established fact they can take to proverbial bank. Even geocentrists are constantly talking about the "mantle" and "core" of the earth as though they have drilled down there and gathered samples. (Heck, anybody even remotely familiar with drilling water wells, let alone working on deeper oil rigs, knows how danged hard it can be to just keep drilling straight down and thinks they are taking samples more or less straight down when it turns out they have been drilling horizontally through soft sandstone...)
So even seemingly easy tasks like discerning the "flood-pre-flood boundary" are actually very difficult, and we really have no way of knowing for sure if even the so-called Cambrian discontinuity at the bottom of the grand Canyon is true primordial rock. We really have to be on solid ground (pun intended) before we can take the next step in any theory we formulate.
To pick on Earth's Catastrophic Past once again, I find the exposes' on "sedimentation during creation week" and the speculation concerning the lack of supernovae to posit a "young universe" bordering on the hilarious. Before the Fall of Adam, I think we can safely say that no death, vegetative processes (such as our current common digestive process) nor radiation existed. Just what did lions and tigers and wolves eat before the Fall, I do not know. But everything from the mournful howls of coyotes to the somber cooing of the morning dove bespeaks a world torn from its primordial paradisical state, a world that lacked thorns and thistles and could hardly have been subject to "the laws of the jungle". Nor can I imagine the Good and Holy God creating a place full of the screams of prey and the roaring of lions. No, I can only paraphrase the words of the Gospel and say "an enemy hath done this..."
Ever since Galileo trained his telescope on the heavens and Leevenwithe trained his microscope on cat hairs mankind has descended from the ethereal to the crass material, and has embarked on the search for the Higg's Boson, the God Particle, the Theory of Everything, or whatever else one wishes to call it. And they come up with one hilarious theory after another, from the Big Bang to the "DNA Molecule". By God the DNA Molecule is a hoot. It has only 100 billion or so base pairs. Good grief, just to put a coat on a white wolf, which has a thousand hairs per square inch and a thousand square inches of coat and a million possible hair colors, from deep reds to grey-blues, to pure whites to jet black, would require a trillion base pairs, and that is just for his coat, to say nothing of the 30 thousand miles of capillaries that comprise his wonderful circulatory system!
So maybe I'm just an old coot off his rocker, but the longer I live, the more I see a world full of mystery and the spiritual that every creature is a book pointing to our creator and the wonderful things he hath made. So, by all means, do research, do experiments, and do patient investigation, but always keep in mind that if you come to the conclusion all trees are green and then you happen upon just one yellow one, well, so much for that theory, and the morrow is another day.
While it's apparent that there is plenty of naivete' and hubris among professionals and amateurs too, a lot of science is nonetheless fairly reliable, like maybe 70% of it. Part of the problem is that big business got involved since at least the late 1800s and their profit motive biased a lot of science, so that it's not proper science, but just goes through some of the motions in order to fool the public. It even fools most scientists.
I think Oard explained fairly well that the people who originally suggested that the finding of undigested plants in the stomach of one or a few frozen mammoths were wrong to suggest that flash freezing is the only way that could happen. I think he said it was assumed that their stomachs should have digested the plants in a short time, but it turns out that mammoths, like elephants and other animals, like horses, don't digest food in their stomachs, but in their intestines, instead, if I remember right. Since the bedrock under the frozen mammoths and rhinos is apparently sedimentary rock, and since all sedimentary rock was surely deposited mostly during the Great Flood and sometimes during at least one later Flood during the Younger Dryas impacts, those mammoths, rhinos etc must have frozen after the Great Flood. I have an earlier post about the Ice Age that explains, by Oard's reckoning, that it took a few centuries after the Great Flood for the Arctic to freeze and that's when those animals froze. Only a few are found frozen. Most fossils are just bones and tusks found on some Arctic islands and in northern Siberia, Alaska and Yukon.
The interiors of the Sun, planets and moons can be detected by seismic waves and pressure waves. On Earth, ground-penetrating radar can detect objects vaguely for a few meters downward, or more than that horizontally, such as in the Great Pyramid. Seismic and pressure waves produce similar images on Earth, the Sun and other solar system bodies from the interiors. Charles Chandler was able to make some interesting tentative conclusions about interiors at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6031. Miles Mathis found that there are a lot of math and logic errors in physics at http://milesmathis.com/updates.html. That includes findings about the Higgs boson and many other things.
The "deep state" is also involved in trying to deceive people. They seem to be involved in the Flat Earth theory revival and maybe the geocentric model of the solar system.
I'm a Christian heretic, so I think there are a lot of errors in the Bible too. Jesus said he came to teach the Torah correctly, so the New Testament was correcting a lot of false teachings that the Pharisees and others had come up with over previous centuries. I think pain was created for at least two reasons: to help creatures & humans to avoid injuring or killing themselves; and to encourage humans to care about others. If no one experienced severe pain, no one would care so much about others, but knowing that people suffer, we're inspired to help them overcome their pain.
If you can provide sources on your DNA statements and others, I'd be glad to check them out. I've long known that DNA seems to have a very limited role of just producing proteins.
Regarding Holy Scripture, the Council of Ephesus declared that this is the Inspired Word of God, who can neither deceive nor be deceived, as the axiom puts it. Consequently, the inspired books of the Latin Vulgate contain no errors absolutely, not just in matters in doctrine, but in cosmology or any other science. 'Nuff said there.
Whether the earth be round or flat or saddle shaped, I have no idea. Flat earth cosmologists give some interesting and excellent arguments for their position. Meanwhile, the Galileo people have absolutely no explanation for how their model fails to explain motions in the heavens, or the lack of pre-cindence concerning time- the day and year being but one example. The flat earth model indeed better explains the size and path of eclipses, for example, and the refraction of sunlight rays coming through cumulus clouds. The flat earth model, however, utterly fails to explain how the sun sinks below the horizon at sunset, and the fact that the stars of the "southern hemisphere" (to use the colloquial expression) are below the horizon. Obviously, cosmology is quite a lot more complicated than either the Kepler or the Tycho Brahe models would have us believe. I think a heck of a lot more research needs to be done before we can reach any sound conclusions.
I don't think the moon, for one, has an "interior". Investigations in the 1950's by a particular group of researchers led to the conclusion the moon is a "plasma field" and that what we see is a reflection, as through an extreme convex (or concave, not sure which) lens of the roof or the firmament, pocked with craters from some catastrophic event in the distant past. The moon collects the sunlight and only reflects certain frequencies. If the moon was made of basalt, as many scientists postulate, then moonlight should have the same spectrum as sunlight reflected off of basalt. But it does not, being dramatically shifted to the violet end of the spectrum, rather than sunlights slight shift to the red end. The moon is also far brighter than it would be if it was merely a globe of rock reflecting sunlight. It does seem to be a sort of "lens" at the end of a convergence of sunlight. (by the same token, even conventional astronomers postulate that the sun is not visible in the Galileo model much past the orbit of Pluto, which causes them to give ginormous and ridiculous sizes to stars like Beetlejuice, which they claim is larger than the orbit of Mars around the sun. And this pales with the sizes of some other stars.)
I know a lot of studies have been done with seismic waves. But it is also known that these can be refracted. Indeed, the degree of refraction is used to postulate what types of substances might be deep, deep down. However, we really have no way of knowing if the refraction is hyperbolic, parabolic, sinusoidal, or any of any number of wave functions, until we have at least one example of what is happening inch by inch.
No doubt there are "deep state shills" in the "Flat Earth Movement". Deep state shills are everywhere, and this "conspiracy" extends a lot longer and deeper than many suspect. Our opponents play the long game, and have diabolical patience. And no doubt they will use any finding of science to contradict Holy Writ, which they hate.
As to the mammoths in particular, I agree that digestion does not occur in the stomach- heck, our digestion does not occur in our stomachs either. Digestion is a process conducted by micro-organisms in our intestines by a balance of yeasts, bacteria, and some molds. (Some even postulate that all these are but different manifestations of the same organism, in research that refutes "germ theory"). Since the Fall of Adam, we absolutely depend upon death for life. The very natural law itself was deformed by the Original Sin, if scripture be any indication.
But back to the mammoths. The main reason I believe they were more or less flash frozen is the utter lack of any decay. Also, they were obviously transported from their immediate environment, as they are not surrounded by grass, trees, or anything else. Meanwhile, if parts of the carcass had remained above about 80 degrees fahrenheit or so for mere hours, it would have soured. The fact that the meat was so fresh after thawing is absolutely astounding, and not easily dismissed.
But I have utterly enjoyed this exchange. Happy feast of the Ascension of Our Lord Jesus Christ this 18th of May (Roman Calendar) 2023 In the Year of Our Lord.
Intriguing article and information. Personally, I have become convinced that the mammoths were flash frozen at the onset of Noah's deluge. If, as is postulated, the earth fauted down what are now the mid-oceanic trenches and huge plumes and geysers of water were ejected high into the stratosphere... upon reaching the cryosphere they would have frozen to hundreds of degrees below the freezing point of water, and caused catastrophic blizzards that would have rapidly entombed the animals. But then how did the ice survive the ensuing flooding and volcanism??? Probably by being quickly buried in ash.
My theory would be substantiated by drilling below the yedoma permafrost and examining the underlying strata. If it is mostly sediments, that would be puzzling. But if it were igneous or dolomites, that is what I would expect.
Hi. You seem to favor Walt Brown's hydroplate theory. Michael Oard has written one or more articles opposing that theory. Did you see my posts on the Great Flood, the Pangaea Breakup and on the Ice Age? I believe the bedrock under the yedomas is already known and it is sedimentary rock. These links are to world maps of rock types and it looks like Siberia, Alaska & Canada all have sedimentary rock. https://concordconsort.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/World-Geologic-Map-updated-key-v2.png and https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nils-Moosdorf/publication/233851696/figure/fig1/AS:669981763178497@1536747508108/Representation-of-the-global-lithological-map-database-GLiM-showing-the-basic.png
The sedimentary rock formed mostly during the Great Flood and apparently a little more was deposited in a later Flood when the Ice Sheet melted. Mike Fischer's NewGeology.us site has the best explanation for how Pangaea broke up. He thinks it broke up a few centuries after the Great Flood, but I think Oard and others have it right about the timing, that it was late in the Great Flood. Fischer has the cause right, IMO, that an asteroid struck Pangaea just east of Africa. The mountains formed as the continents were splitting apart and as they later stopped sliding. The Earth's mantle is thousands of kilometers thick. Oard and others think the mantle was caused to have convection currents that moved the continents apart, but Fischer's idea makes better sense, that the continents slid on the Moho layer, so only the crust had to move in places, not the entire mantle. But Oard seems to be right that impact and volcanic dust caused gradual cooling, so the ice sheets built up gradually over about 500 years. After 300 or more years the mammoths froze to death. A few hundred years later the ice sheets melted due to more impacts etc.
Brown had some good info on the origin of Earth's radioactivity and a few other things. His hydroplate model is somewhat compatible with Mike Fischer's model for partly explaining how the continents first split apart, but Brown neglected to consider that impacts would be a better starter than supercritical water under the crust.
Actually I don't really favor any particular theory. I'm just trying to look at the field evidence and drawing conclusions from there. When it comes to the mammoths and rhinos, it is just blatantly obvious these critters were flash frozen. Examination of the stomach contents shows they were munching amid a lush environment full of beans and other vegetables and were suddenly buried in snow and ice that was so cold it froze them so quickly that not even several hours of decay occurred, and digestion of stomach contents stopped almost instantaneously.
Given all we know about natural history, I can conjure no natural- even a volcanic or meteorlogical event several orders of magnitude greater than those occurring today that could have caused this other than the flood itself. I am highly skeptical of any theory that this could have happened at any time after the early stages of Noah's deluge, all other field studies notwithstanding.
I am aware of other tremendous events that occurred post-deluge, such as the carving out of the Grand Canyon and Eastern Washington scablands by catastrophic runoff of glacial melt, and the vast lava flows of New Mexico, testimony to tremendous volcanism. But none of these events could have produced blizzard conditions that would have frozen the mammoths.
My best postulate at this point is that the mammoths were flash frozen during the early stages of the flood and trapped in large chunks of ice and debris that was somehow preserved during the flood year, perhaps as huge ice bergs floating upon the waves insulated by vegetation mats or maybe insulated by layers of peat while being buried in sediment by ashfalls that subsequently were washed away.
Sometimes it is almost humorous to read the various theories of creation scientists and other "young earth cosmologists". It is not so much that I adhere to some sort of "Big Bang" model, which I find utterly laughable, but even some well known creation scientists, such as the author of "Earth's Catastrophic Past" (Which I recommend to many) seem so cocksure that Galileo's heliocentric model and even a "globe earth" is established fact they can take to proverbial bank. Even geocentrists are constantly talking about the "mantle" and "core" of the earth as though they have drilled down there and gathered samples. (Heck, anybody even remotely familiar with drilling water wells, let alone working on deeper oil rigs, knows how danged hard it can be to just keep drilling straight down and thinks they are taking samples more or less straight down when it turns out they have been drilling horizontally through soft sandstone...)
So even seemingly easy tasks like discerning the "flood-pre-flood boundary" are actually very difficult, and we really have no way of knowing for sure if even the so-called Cambrian discontinuity at the bottom of the grand Canyon is true primordial rock. We really have to be on solid ground (pun intended) before we can take the next step in any theory we formulate.
To pick on Earth's Catastrophic Past once again, I find the exposes' on "sedimentation during creation week" and the speculation concerning the lack of supernovae to posit a "young universe" bordering on the hilarious. Before the Fall of Adam, I think we can safely say that no death, vegetative processes (such as our current common digestive process) nor radiation existed. Just what did lions and tigers and wolves eat before the Fall, I do not know. But everything from the mournful howls of coyotes to the somber cooing of the morning dove bespeaks a world torn from its primordial paradisical state, a world that lacked thorns and thistles and could hardly have been subject to "the laws of the jungle". Nor can I imagine the Good and Holy God creating a place full of the screams of prey and the roaring of lions. No, I can only paraphrase the words of the Gospel and say "an enemy hath done this..."
Ever since Galileo trained his telescope on the heavens and Leevenwithe trained his microscope on cat hairs mankind has descended from the ethereal to the crass material, and has embarked on the search for the Higg's Boson, the God Particle, the Theory of Everything, or whatever else one wishes to call it. And they come up with one hilarious theory after another, from the Big Bang to the "DNA Molecule". By God the DNA Molecule is a hoot. It has only 100 billion or so base pairs. Good grief, just to put a coat on a white wolf, which has a thousand hairs per square inch and a thousand square inches of coat and a million possible hair colors, from deep reds to grey-blues, to pure whites to jet black, would require a trillion base pairs, and that is just for his coat, to say nothing of the 30 thousand miles of capillaries that comprise his wonderful circulatory system!
So maybe I'm just an old coot off his rocker, but the longer I live, the more I see a world full of mystery and the spiritual that every creature is a book pointing to our creator and the wonderful things he hath made. So, by all means, do research, do experiments, and do patient investigation, but always keep in mind that if you come to the conclusion all trees are green and then you happen upon just one yellow one, well, so much for that theory, and the morrow is another day.
While it's apparent that there is plenty of naivete' and hubris among professionals and amateurs too, a lot of science is nonetheless fairly reliable, like maybe 70% of it. Part of the problem is that big business got involved since at least the late 1800s and their profit motive biased a lot of science, so that it's not proper science, but just goes through some of the motions in order to fool the public. It even fools most scientists.
I think Oard explained fairly well that the people who originally suggested that the finding of undigested plants in the stomach of one or a few frozen mammoths were wrong to suggest that flash freezing is the only way that could happen. I think he said it was assumed that their stomachs should have digested the plants in a short time, but it turns out that mammoths, like elephants and other animals, like horses, don't digest food in their stomachs, but in their intestines, instead, if I remember right. Since the bedrock under the frozen mammoths and rhinos is apparently sedimentary rock, and since all sedimentary rock was surely deposited mostly during the Great Flood and sometimes during at least one later Flood during the Younger Dryas impacts, those mammoths, rhinos etc must have frozen after the Great Flood. I have an earlier post about the Ice Age that explains, by Oard's reckoning, that it took a few centuries after the Great Flood for the Arctic to freeze and that's when those animals froze. Only a few are found frozen. Most fossils are just bones and tusks found on some Arctic islands and in northern Siberia, Alaska and Yukon.
The interiors of the Sun, planets and moons can be detected by seismic waves and pressure waves. On Earth, ground-penetrating radar can detect objects vaguely for a few meters downward, or more than that horizontally, such as in the Great Pyramid. Seismic and pressure waves produce similar images on Earth, the Sun and other solar system bodies from the interiors. Charles Chandler was able to make some interesting tentative conclusions about interiors at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6031. Miles Mathis found that there are a lot of math and logic errors in physics at http://milesmathis.com/updates.html. That includes findings about the Higgs boson and many other things.
The "deep state" is also involved in trying to deceive people. They seem to be involved in the Flat Earth theory revival and maybe the geocentric model of the solar system.
I'm a Christian heretic, so I think there are a lot of errors in the Bible too. Jesus said he came to teach the Torah correctly, so the New Testament was correcting a lot of false teachings that the Pharisees and others had come up with over previous centuries. I think pain was created for at least two reasons: to help creatures & humans to avoid injuring or killing themselves; and to encourage humans to care about others. If no one experienced severe pain, no one would care so much about others, but knowing that people suffer, we're inspired to help them overcome their pain.
If you can provide sources on your DNA statements and others, I'd be glad to check them out. I've long known that DNA seems to have a very limited role of just producing proteins.
Thanks for the comments.
Regarding Holy Scripture, the Council of Ephesus declared that this is the Inspired Word of God, who can neither deceive nor be deceived, as the axiom puts it. Consequently, the inspired books of the Latin Vulgate contain no errors absolutely, not just in matters in doctrine, but in cosmology or any other science. 'Nuff said there.
Whether the earth be round or flat or saddle shaped, I have no idea. Flat earth cosmologists give some interesting and excellent arguments for their position. Meanwhile, the Galileo people have absolutely no explanation for how their model fails to explain motions in the heavens, or the lack of pre-cindence concerning time- the day and year being but one example. The flat earth model indeed better explains the size and path of eclipses, for example, and the refraction of sunlight rays coming through cumulus clouds. The flat earth model, however, utterly fails to explain how the sun sinks below the horizon at sunset, and the fact that the stars of the "southern hemisphere" (to use the colloquial expression) are below the horizon. Obviously, cosmology is quite a lot more complicated than either the Kepler or the Tycho Brahe models would have us believe. I think a heck of a lot more research needs to be done before we can reach any sound conclusions.
I don't think the moon, for one, has an "interior". Investigations in the 1950's by a particular group of researchers led to the conclusion the moon is a "plasma field" and that what we see is a reflection, as through an extreme convex (or concave, not sure which) lens of the roof or the firmament, pocked with craters from some catastrophic event in the distant past. The moon collects the sunlight and only reflects certain frequencies. If the moon was made of basalt, as many scientists postulate, then moonlight should have the same spectrum as sunlight reflected off of basalt. But it does not, being dramatically shifted to the violet end of the spectrum, rather than sunlights slight shift to the red end. The moon is also far brighter than it would be if it was merely a globe of rock reflecting sunlight. It does seem to be a sort of "lens" at the end of a convergence of sunlight. (by the same token, even conventional astronomers postulate that the sun is not visible in the Galileo model much past the orbit of Pluto, which causes them to give ginormous and ridiculous sizes to stars like Beetlejuice, which they claim is larger than the orbit of Mars around the sun. And this pales with the sizes of some other stars.)
I know a lot of studies have been done with seismic waves. But it is also known that these can be refracted. Indeed, the degree of refraction is used to postulate what types of substances might be deep, deep down. However, we really have no way of knowing if the refraction is hyperbolic, parabolic, sinusoidal, or any of any number of wave functions, until we have at least one example of what is happening inch by inch.
No doubt there are "deep state shills" in the "Flat Earth Movement". Deep state shills are everywhere, and this "conspiracy" extends a lot longer and deeper than many suspect. Our opponents play the long game, and have diabolical patience. And no doubt they will use any finding of science to contradict Holy Writ, which they hate.
As to the mammoths in particular, I agree that digestion does not occur in the stomach- heck, our digestion does not occur in our stomachs either. Digestion is a process conducted by micro-organisms in our intestines by a balance of yeasts, bacteria, and some molds. (Some even postulate that all these are but different manifestations of the same organism, in research that refutes "germ theory"). Since the Fall of Adam, we absolutely depend upon death for life. The very natural law itself was deformed by the Original Sin, if scripture be any indication.
But back to the mammoths. The main reason I believe they were more or less flash frozen is the utter lack of any decay. Also, they were obviously transported from their immediate environment, as they are not surrounded by grass, trees, or anything else. Meanwhile, if parts of the carcass had remained above about 80 degrees fahrenheit or so for mere hours, it would have soured. The fact that the meat was so fresh after thawing is absolutely astounding, and not easily dismissed.
But I have utterly enjoyed this exchange. Happy feast of the Ascension of Our Lord Jesus Christ this 18th of May (Roman Calendar) 2023 In the Year of Our Lord.