{Number line indicates millions of miles from Earth. JSVME = Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, Earth.}
EARTH’S MOON FROM JUPITER?
Bridget: Mon Jan 13, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=285&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p285
{Axial tilts of the Moon, Jupiter, Mercury and the Sun are close together. Venus is opposite. Saturn, Earth, Mars and Neptune are close together. Uranus's is totally different. In the table here, Venus is in the Sun-Jupiter group because the tilt is close to the same, just reversed.}
ANCIENT JUPITER'S BRIGHT PLASMASPHERE
JPM: Sun Jan 19, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=370&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p379
_When there is a planetary alignment, such as Sun-Jupiter-Saturn, then Jupiter’s plasmasphere interacts with Saturn’s more negative plasmasphere, perhaps with an interplanetary lightning discharge. Today, these plasmaspheres are in dark current mode and so are invisible to our naked eye, but seen by instruments (IR and radio). But in the early days of our solar system, currents were higher and voltages greater. Thus Jupiter’s visibly glowing plasmasphere was the largest object in the Solar System in the night sky – larger than the Sun by day, but not nearly as bright. And so Jupiter was called the ‘King of the Gods’.
ASTEROID BELT, METEOR STREAMS, TIMELINE
Mon Aug 03, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2742&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p2742
_2a. The Golden Age began at an unknown time after the suprecontinent formed.
_2b. 4,500 years ago Saturn flared up within Jupiter's orbit, creating the asteroid belt and meteor streams.
SUN DISTANCE, AGE OF DARKNESS
Sun Aug 09, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2742&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p2772
_There's a comparison of the size of the Sun as seen from all of the planets at https://www.foundalis.com/ast/sunview.htm (See image above.)
_It looks like Earth would have to be at the orbit of Jupiter or farther in order to be in an age of darkness.
ANCIENTS DREW JUPITER WITH BANDS
Tue Oct 13, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3214
_From Myth to a Physical Model [Aeon Journal] From: Aeon III:3 (Oct 1993) {by Talbott} "ancients pictured Jupiter with bands"
JUPITER WAS CLOSE
Wed Oct 14, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3220
_My notes on the article also say the ancients showed Jupiter with bands. That means Jupiter was likely close enough for the ancients to see its bands. And that means Jupiter must have been hiding behind Saturn until Saturn left the Saturn system. ... I can't readily find an ancient image of Jupiter with bands, but this {apparently} one shows the swirling forms visible in Jupiter's bands: https://ancientreasures.com/products/ancient-roman-god-jupiter-head-fragment-home-decor
JUPITER REPLACED SATURN
Thu Oct 15, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3225
_{Following are} slightly paraphrased excerpts from Dave Talbott's article
... from the late phase, when Jupiter possibly replaced Saturn at the polar position and Venus and Mars became unstable etc.
_One planet signified the original creator-king, god of the Golden Age; the other the re-born or rejuvenated creator-king whose saga was celebrated every New Year. It is impossible not to notice that the elder figure was continually associated with Saturn and the younger with Jupiter.
_The underlying events suggest that with Saturn's removal from the polar center and a period of general confusion, Jupiter came to occupy the visible position previously held by Saturn.
_Egyptian sources repeat again and again that Horus [Mars], the warrior-hero and former pupil of the Eye, delivered the Eye [Venus] to Osiris [Jupiter], and the texts also confirm that the Eye and heart-soul are synonymous.
Sat Oct 17, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3234
_http://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thoth.1997.03.txt ... SATURN THEORY, OVERVIEW (3) By David Talbott ... 7. REJUVENATED CREATOR-KING [Jupiter] ... JUPITER'S ARRIVAL ... http://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv10.txt
_Many themes relating to the terrible goddess and the ordeal, initiation, or rebirth of the hero occur in association with the first appearance of Jupiter. In one way or another the motifs of swallowing, cavernous hiding place, wrapping or winding, binding, and imprisonment run through all of the accounts relating to Jupiter's emergence as sovereign power.
_[COMMENT: So the odd motions of Venus and Mars occurred at the time Jupiter became visible, which I think was when Saturn departed.]
{UPDATE: I’ve now added an improved diagram at the End.}
LAST ORBIT OF SATURN SYSTEM
Thu Oct 22, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3269
_{Orbit image} https://futureschool.boards.net/post/180/thread
SATURN SYSTEM BREAKUP
Thu Oct 22, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3276
_Thoth article ... says the Age of Saturn was followed by the Age of Jupiter ...
ttps://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv12.txt
_Hesiod's story of the birth of Zeus (Jupiter) within a cave is really the story of the HERO "born" in the cave. It was not Jupiter that was carried off by the goddess. It was the unborn hero [[Mars]], as in the universal legend.
JUPITER'S BIRTH
Sun Oct 25, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3214&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3299
_Mythical History of the Comet Venus (Part I) Aeon II:4 (1991) by David Talbott ... {Here's a quote from the article.} "I have privately speculated that the entire planetary configuration moving through a gaseous envelope extending perhaps several million miles from Jupiter. (And if so, the dynamic interaction of the participating planets with this medium must be a part of any discussion of the physics of planetary alignment!) Jupiter was originally hidden behind Saturn, subsequently to be 'born' as the rejuvenated or resurrected sun god following a great catastrophe in which the shared axis was disturbed and Saturn displaced from its polar position.(2)"
SATURN DEPARTURE PROBLEM
Mon Oct 26, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3303&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3303
_The Opening of The Mouth Ritual - Part II [Aeon] ... In 1993, Talbott stated he no longer believes Osiris was Saturn. [69] Instead, he now surmises that Osiris was actually Jupiter, which planet replaced Saturn behind which it had been shielded from mortal eyes. To him, this change of polar planets constituted the re-born sun-god. My main objection, here, is that one cannot ignore the unlikely celestial dynamics involved in having Jupiter replace Saturn in a new polar configuration with Venus, Mars and Earth still aligned below it. How could such a massive celestial body as Saturn get out of the line-up so easily without disrupting the other bodies? More importantly, how could Saturn have then disappeared entirely, as it must have done for observers not to see that it....
MAYBE IT’S NOT A PROBLEM
{Present Comment: This planetary arrangement below seems to work fine, where Jupiter was in front of Saturn and NOT visible from Earth, due to Saturn blocking the view of Jupiter, then Saturn was expelled, so the train went from consisting of JSVME to JVME. The planets likely had the same electrical charges, so they repelled each other electrically, but attracted gravitationally and maybe magnetically. When the Saturn Train encountered the heliospheric current sheet, the sheet may have caused Jupiter to put on the brakes (slow down), which would have caused Saturn to be pushed out of alignment and then to move onto a separate orbit.
In the diagram below, the Saturn Train was moving leftward, spiraling toward the Sun. The yellow-green planet is Saturn, not the Sun. The number line indicates millions of miles from Earth, so Mars was about .9, Venus 1.5, Saturn 3 & Jupiter over 4 million miles. By comparison, Saturn’s present outer moon is 8 million miles from Saturn. There was a disturbance before the arrangement shown on the first panel, which caused Venus & Mars to move slightly out of alignment, but they returned to the alignment in the 1st panel. Then the 2nd panel shows Saturn being pushed out of the Train toward a separate orbit. The 3rd panel shows the arrangement after Saturn’s departure. The 1st panel shows the time of the Golden Age, possibly from the time the Train reached Saturn’s orbit till it reached the Asteroid Belt. The 2nd panel shows the End of the Golden Age. And the 3rd panel shows the Jupiter Age, as the Train moved from the Asteroid Belt inward. Jupiter likely led the Train at least to the orbit of Mars, but possibly as far as the orbit of Venus, before it returned out past the Asteroid Belt again.}
{UPDATE: I’ve now added an improved diagram at the End.}
TALBOTT ON SATURN SYSTEM BREAKUP 1997
Wed Oct 28, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3303&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3324
_Symbols of an Ancient Sky: Slide Presentation & Notes - by David Talbott ... 10. The war of the gods, chaos-monsters [[Venus' tail]], the displacement or death of the great god himself [[Saturn]] who [[Jupiter]] hurls his thunderbolts from heaven -- and even [[Saturn]] swallows his own children.
NEW YEAR'S, LABYRINTH, REJUVENATED SOVEREIGN, JUPITER
Thu Oct 29, 2020 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3303&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p3336
_ https://www.saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv10.txt ... https://www.saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv13.txt ... As a global symbol, the "New Year" recalls the passing from one age to another, a remembrance often celebrated annually but on many other schedules as well. Though his identity is inseparably tied to the Universal Monarch, the resurrected god nevertheless emerges in distinction from that god as his son. He is simultaneously a younger version, and the rejuvenated form of his father, and his appearance or "reappearance" is synonymous with the renewal of a world which had fallen into darkness and discord. Such appears to be the underlying character of the Egyptian Osiris, Akkadian Marduk; Persian Ahura Mazda; Norse Balder; Hebrew Yahweh; Phoenician Bel, Greek Zeus, Roman Jupiter. This archetypal, renewed god will frequently appear as a more passive figure in contrast to the mother goddess and warrior-hero personalities, both of whom are highly active in the break between world ages and are typically involved directly in the episodes leading to the sovereign god's transfiguration or renewal.
JUPITER DEPOSED SATURN, IDENTITIES OF GODS ARE CONFUSING
Tue Jul 06, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5326
_ http://rogerswebsite.com/ah/TheDemandsoftheSaturnianConfigurationTheory.pdf ... STRICKLING: The Lesser Light [Catastrophism & Ancient History] ... Heavenly Inspiration. ... Another common theme in myth and legend from all parts of the world finds its source in the heavens - from a bygone age when Saturn and Jupiter by their proximity crowded our sky. We read in the ancient chronicles that "Vanquished by the might of Zeus [Jupiter], Cronus [Saturn] was driven from the sky and cast to the very depths of the universe and there enchained in the region which stretches beneath the earth and the fruitless sea..."2 In the words of Hesiod (8th Century B.C.) : "... [Zeus] was reigning in heaven, himself holding the lightning and glowing thunderbolt, when he had overcome by might his father Cronus...." Jupiter's fate was later realized as the once brilliant planetary disc shrank to a pin point of light, his glory removed from the sky of earth forever. The Saturn-Jupiter succession and Jupiter's ultimate departure are colorfully preserved by the Tupinamba Indians of Brazil. "The first [great hero] was Nonan [Saturn] who was the creator of mankind, and then destroyed the world with flood and fire; after whom came Maire-Monan [Jupiter] who is often confused with his predecessor. He had the power of changing men and animals [a cometary retinue] into other forms in order to punish them for their sins. . . . [H]e aroused the anger of men by his metamorphoses, so that they decided to kill him. For that end they arranged a festival during which Maire-Monan had to jump over three blazing bonfires. "He jumped the first but fainted above the second and was burned up. His bursting produced thunder, while the flames became lightning. Then he was carried up to heaven, where he became a star."3
_TALBOTT: Thoth Vol IV, No 4: Feb 29, 2000 [Thoth] ... The celestial serpent-dragon takes the form of a great storm or whirlwind, breathes fire and smoke, battles against the gods, and ushers in a period of universal darkness. But these are only a few of the pervasive themes. When, for example, did this chaos monster appear in the sky? It appeared specifically during the break between world ages--following the death or departure of the Universal Monarch, when the Golden Age collapsed--and prior to the renewal of the world. Appearance of the Babylonian Tiamat is synonymous with the flight of the original sovereign An. The Uraeus serpent rages in the sky as a symbol of Re's loss of power. The dethroning of Kronos, founder of the Golden Age, immediately precedes the attack of Typhon.
PASSIVE & ACTIVE GODS, SATURN, JUPITER ETC.
Wed Jul 28, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5481
_ https://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv12.txt ... Dave Talbott Responds: ... 2. Re: Difficulties in establishing a divine biography. Correcto mundo on this point also. The universal sovereign (Saturn-Jupiter) tends to be a passive figure, while the goddess and hero are highly active. In later literature the Martian figure, the warrior-hero, will appear as the servant, messenger, or assistant in the service of a great king.
Sun Aug 01, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5508
"birth of the hero." ... the RE-BIRTH of that figure in the great crisis at the conclusion of Saturn's epoch.) Hesiod's story of the birth of Zeus (Jupiter) within a cave is really the story of the HERO "born" in the cave. It was not Jupiter that was carried off by the goddess. It was the unborn hero, as in the universal legend. It is the story of what happens to the masculine, innermost heart of the sovereign, as it passes from the FIRST form of the sovereign (elder god Saturn) to the SECOND (younger god Jupiter). At this juncture, neither form of the sovereign is necessarily visible, while the externalized Martian "soul," "heart," or "will" of the sovereign--the hero--is very visible and highly active. In these events, the focus is on the activity, the transmigrating "soul," not its more passive owner.
_Remember that in the discussion of the labyrinth motif, I noted that the entry of the hero into the cavernous labyrinth is the story of the hero's re-birth. Typically, a goddess such as Isis, pregnant with the hero, finds a secret hiding place. These myths, I said, relate directly to the transition between Saturnian and Jovian epochs, the dissolution of a world age followed by renewal. Theseus enters the labyrinth where he slays the hidden or imprisoned Minotaur, transcript of the archetypal Bull of Heaven, the primeval form of Saturn. Though a lot of ground would have to be covered to make the equation clear and convincing, there is no doubt in my mind that the archetypal "birth [i.e., rebirth] of the hero" IS the story of the passage from Saturnian to Jovian sovereignty. ... Dave Talbott
The Lost Labyrinth of Ancient Egypt - When Myths Become Real (Video)
Egypt's Lost Labyrinth & the Pyramid of Amenemhet lll at Hawara | Megalithomania
LABYRINTH, JUPITER
Wed Aug 04, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5523
_LABYRINTH AND FORTRESS OF THE GODS, by Dave Talbott at https://www.saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thotiv10.txt ... There he said this. "Many themes relating to the terrible goddess and the ordeal, initiation, or rebirth of the hero occur in association with the first appearance of Jupiter. In one way or another the motifs of swallowing, cavernous hiding place, wrapping or winding, binding, and imprisonment run through all of the accounts relating to Jupiter's emergence as sovereign power."
{LABYRINTH = INTESTINES. Compare the Labyrinth with the ancient mask of a god called Humbaba. I think Saturnists suspect that both images approximate what Saturn (or Jupiter?) once looked like during the transition from the Saturn to the Jupiter Train.}
LBA COLLAPSE
Thu Aug 12, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5549
_ Postby Grey Cloud » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:37 am ... (As I see it) Venus and Mars were definitely involved in the LBA collapse as were Jupiter and the Sun. Homer makes this clear. Whether Venus was involved in any of the previous incidents is hard to say partly because it is difficult to know in which time period a story takes place.
Sun Aug 15, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5326&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5566
_[LK: Grey Cloud apparently assumed that in the Iliad Zeus was Jupiter and Apollo was the Sun. But I think the Saturnists found that they were both Mars in the Iliad. Also, I don't think the Iliad was about the Late Bronze Age collapse of 1200 BC, but more likely the Early Bronze Age collapse of 2300 BC, probably the time of the Younger Dryas event. The planets likely dispersed at that time.]
JUPITER DEPOSED SATURN, AXIS SHIFT
Mon Sep 13, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5650&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5650
_ http://funday.createaforum.com/1-10/x-152/msg338/#msg338 ... From: Aeon V:3 (Dec 1998) Gordon P. Williams. ... Saturn, as the "Sun of Night," [11] was the dominant body of the equatorial heavens above the elevated region of the "Orphic Egg." [12] After periodic visits by Jupiter, Saturn was finally deposed. This region now rests beneath our northern sky, it having shifted through 90-deg as Earth toppled. This sequence of events is possibly that told in the "Wars of the Titans." In the process, mass was lost from Earth's present northern hemisphere and our globe was recast in a pear-shaped form. With this change in the levels of the Earth's crust, a transfer of the oceans from about the southern continent towards the north would follow. Early sea levels would have been quite low and much less saline....
ORIGIN OF HALLOWEEN
Fri Nov 05, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5896&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5896
_(Goto 22'30" re Halloween dates in many ancient cultures) youtube.com/watch?v=zbpElHz6quw ... Randall showed an illustration of the Taurid Meteor Stream, which appears to be an elliptical stream stretching from Mercury nearly to Jupiter. I agree with Dave that the system must have broken up somewhere between the orbits of Mars and Venus, because most life on Earth likely would have perished from freezing to death if Earth had to spend several years traveling alone from the orbit of Jupiter or Saturn to its present orbit. That's why I have supposed that the system didn't break up until it reached an orbit that could sustain life on Earth. Saturn could have broken away around the orbit of the inner asteroid belt, if Jupiter continued on with the system further toward Earth's present orbit. I think that was kind of Dave's view. Ancient myths say that Jupiter replaced Saturn for a period of time before Jupiter too broke away, which could have happened between the orbits of Mars and Venus. The orbits of each of the planets could have been circularized by encountering a great deal of gas and dust, possibly produced by Saturn Flares or Novas. PS, later in the second video he showed that Halloween was in some cultures celebrated in mid November, which is when Earth enters the Leonid Meteor Stream. Apparently, the two streams were initially just one stream and later broke into two.
SATURN TRAIN DISMANTLING
Wed Nov 10, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5896&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5915
_If the YD event was caused by Saturn's last nova, then Saturn must have left the system at about that time and Jupiter took over. The remaining system I think moved from the asteroid belt to the orbit of Venus before Jupiter returned to its present orbit. Mars left the system first where it presently orbits, then Earth left at its present orbit, then Venus left and Jupiter went home. Jupiter could have gone back to its home orbit after reaching the orbit of Mars, because Earth could have remained unfrozen at that point in the solar system, I think. What I'm getting at is that Earth needed Jupiter's warmth to survive the cold between Jupiter's and Mars' home orbits, i.e. if it took more than a year or two to cross that region.
1953 BC CONJUNCTION
Wed Nov 17, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5896&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5955
_The Cosmic String of Pearls [Aeon] ... From: Aeon Volume VI, Number 4
_Using computers to back-compute the planetary orbits, Pang and colleagues settled on a date in late February 1953 BC when Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn came within only five degrees of one another (close enough that they could be blocked out by a thumb held at arm's length)." [50]
SATURN TRAIN BREAKUP, ASTEROID BELT OR VENUS ORBIT
Thu Nov 25, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5896&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p5989
_SATURN SYSTEM BROKE UP IN THE ASTEROID BELT ... (That's according to Cardona, below, but Talbott said it broke up at the orbit of Venus. It probably started to break up at the asteroid belt and finished at the orbit of Venus, Saturn leaving first and Jupiter last.)
_THOTH A Catastrophics Newsletter ... VOL VI, No 1, Jan 15, 2002 ... THE CAPTURE QUESTION AGAIN, by Dwardu Cardona ... Had the Saturnian system always existed at the distance of the asteroid belt, the crescent would always have been there, and we have deduced from the mytho-historical record that it had not. ... Also, had the Saturnian system always been at the distance of the asteroid belt, Venus, Mars, and Earth would have long been within the clutches of the Sun's attracting power, and the planets would not have been able to sustain their linear stacking [trailing linearly behind Saturn like the SL9 comet fragments].
_The asteroid belt is therefore best understood as the GENERAL locality in which the system broke up, having come within that orbital distance from outside the Sun's domain of influence.
_THEREFORE, JUPITER REPLACED SATURN AT THE ASTEROID BELT ... It probably took several years for the system to reach the asteroid belt after crossing Jupiter's present orbit. That's when Saturn reached its perigee and then started moving out to its present orbit, presumably with the help of dust that helped circularize its orbit. The dust gradually dispersed afterward. The system apparently didn't completely break up at that point. It just started to break up, by Saturn leaving. But Jupiter continued moving inward toward the Sun until it reached the orbit of Mars at least. Otherwise, life on Earth would likely have frozen to death, without the heat from Jupiter. I think myths suggest that Jupiter took Saturn's place, but I don't know for how long. But Earth probably would have reached the Sun's habitable zone when it go to the orbit of Mars. So Jupiter may have broken away at that point. The inner planets then broke away to their present orbits, again circularizing due to dust in space from Saturn novas.
_WHERE WE WERE IN SPACE DURING EACH CATACLYSM
- During the Great Flood (when Saturn went nova) the Saturn system may have been near the present orbit of Uranus, maybe around 3000 BC.
- During the Pangaea supercontinent breakup we may have been within the present orbit of Saturn, maybe around 2500 BC.
- During the Younger Dryas event we may have been just outside the present orbit of Jupiter, maybe around 2345 BC.
- During the Saturn system breakup we seem to have been at the asteroid belt, maybe in 1953 BC.
- Around the time of the Sodom and Gamorrah cataclysm, when we were around the orbit of Mars(?), Jupiter may have left the system, maybe in 1740 BC, according to Charles Chandler's estimate at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 (although I said above that Jupiter may have escorted Venus to its present orbit before moving out to its own present orbit). Interestingly, Cardona had an article in Kronos magazine in the 1980s, I think, suggesting that the Sodom & Gamorrah cataclysm was caused by a close approach of Jupiter's moon, Io, which has sulfur. The Bible said fire & brimstone rained down on those cities & brimstone is likely sulfur. If Io was nearby, so was Jupiter.
- Periodic cataclysms continued to occur, but on a smaller scale, mainly around the time of Halloween and the end of June. Clube & Napier have documented some examples, I believe.
JUPITER WAS BEHIND SATURN OR BELOW EARTH
Fri Dec 10, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6045&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p6047
_The Road to Saturn, Dwardu Cardona ... https://www.aeonjournal.com/articles/road_to_saturn/road_to_saturn.html ... Talbott published his views on the polar configuration at about the same time [1977] I published "The Sun of Night." ... In his opinion, Jupiter would have been invisible from Earth since it was hidden directly behind Saturn. My own research, on the other hand, had disclosed what seemed to be exactly the opposite. Ancient texts from various quarters describe Jupiter as the god and/or star of the south. This led me to believe that Jupiter must have been located in Earth's south polar sky. This configuration would coincidentally have lessened the Roche limit problem since the Earth would have been gravitationally attracted to both giants without succumbing to either.
_At some point during this destruction, according to Talbott's scheme, Jupiter finally appeared from behind Saturn, "stole" Saturn's encircling band, and then wandered away from the celestial center. Thus Talbott made it clear that the original ringed structure had actually surrounded the hidden Jupiter and that it was only Earth-bound perspective that had made it appear to encircle Saturn.
_[FLARE] In more than one place, Talbott had made it appear that the enclosing band was formed from material ejected by the Saturnian orb. It is hard to conceive that material ejected by one celestial body would encircle another x-miles away. Or was this, according to Talbott, but another celestial illusion in which the primeval matter had actually been ejected by Jupiter? Was it Jupiter then that flared up?
_[JUPITER APPEARED AS EARTH TURNED OVER] In contradistinction, my scenario had Jupiter appearing from beyond Earth's horizon when the [Earth] flipped over. Saturn and Jupiter were seen to change places. It was said that Saturn made his acquaintance with the southern constellations while the star of the south rose to occupy Saturn's vacated post.
_[SATURN & JUPITER FORMED RINGS] In my scheme the seven bands had actually surrounded the Saturnian orb, rather than merely appearing to do so, from long before the dissolution. These disappeared with Saturn when [Saturn] dropped out of sight. Jupiter was encircled by its own ringed system, which accounts for the apparent "theft."
NOVAS & COMETS CAUSED RADIOACTIVITY & PERMAFROST
Fri Dec 17, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6045&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p6078
_Immense atmospheres of nitrogen occur in compounds like ammonia, as well as in the planetary atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn and, as hydrides of nitrogen, in the tails of comets.
[I've suggested before that the rapid freezing of the Arctic could have been due to a large comet or asteroid impact, that would have brought in very cold air from the upper atmosphere. But maybe ammonia from Saturn or Jupiter novas, or nitrogen hydrides from comets, like Venus, is even more likely. It seems that both are probable. Remember, the impacts would also have produced extremely strong winds, which would hasten freezing even more.]
SATURN V. JUPITER AT ECLIPTIC
Fri Dec 24, 2021 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6045&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p6127
_Every time proto-Saturn crossed the ecliptic it would transfer charge more rapidly in the denser plasma there. That would tend to pull its orbit into the ecliptic plane. In this scenario, Jupiter is proto-Saturn's nemesis. As proto-Saturn's system spiraled in toward the Sun, a clash of the Titans was almost inevitable. When it happened, Jupiter would have appeared to loom large in the sky in a matter of days, or even hours. Given that we were trailing behind our primordial (ex)-star, it could be that Jupiter appeared suddenly from behind proto-Saturn, just as Talbott has been suggesting.
SATURN TRAIN LOGIC
Fri Apr 22, 2022 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6789&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p6801
_LOGIC NOTE: Cardona thought Jupiter followed Earth, whereas Talbott thought it preceded Saturn. It makes more sense if Talbott was right, because when Saturn probably later left the train near the Asteroid Belt and Jupiter replaced Saturn, Jupiter was likely in the lead position where it provided heat for Earth so that life did not freeze to death while moving to its present orbit. Saturn may have encountered Jupiter as the former began to leave the train, which may have changed Jupiter's axis tilt. And Jupiter's new axis tilt may have affected Venus' tilt as well, since it was next in line after Jupiter when Saturn left. The other planets retained Saturn's tilt, except for Uranus, Mercury & Pluto, which latter may have been jostled around during the extended breakup of the train. I'm not confident that axis tilts are important, but for now I'll assume they are.
JUPITER WARMED EARTH'S SOUTH POLE?
Wed Apr 27, 2022 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6789&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p6814
_The Road to Saturn ... As the mythological record implies, Saturn would only have shone as a sun following its flare-up through the period of the Golden Age.
_How would the Earth's southern hemisphere have been warmed enough to sustain life? This question could be answered by again positing a southern placement for Jupiter where the Earth would have been suspended between the two giants as some myths seem to imply.
_[COMMENT: The south pole didn't need warming, because Antarctica didn't move there till ca. the Younger Dryas event, i.e. during the breakup of Pangaea.]
POLE SHIFTS & POLAR COLUMN
Sun Jun 19, 2022 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6989&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p7063
_The Saturnists have indicated that Saturn wandered before it settled in the polar configuration and Venus & Mars wandered from & then returned to the polar configuration shortly before the system broke up. Then Saturn wandered away, replaced by Jupiter. Then the remaining 3 just faded from the myths or something. The wandering of Saturn was likely due to the Earth wobbling as in a pole shift. Cardona has some good evidence that the north pole was at the same place during the Golden Age that it is now.
LIGHTNING EVENTS
Sun Jul 03, 2022 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=7068&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p7161
_From: Kronos Vol. VI No. 4 (Summer 1981) Sean Mewhinney. ... The destruction of Sennacherib's army by a fiery blast in the year 687 B.C. ... DEAD SEA EVENT ALSO INVOLVED MEGALIGHTNING ... The Archangels [Kronos] ... From: Kronos Vol. VIII No. 2 (Winter 1983) Copyright (c) 1982 by Dwardu Cardona. ... The Cities of the Plain. Immanuel Velikovsky was of the opinion that the thunderbolt which struck the Biblical Cities of the Plain, as described by Josephus,(1) resulted from an interplanetary discharge originating from Jupiter that occurred at the time.(2)
SATURN TRAIN DISMANTLING REVISITED
Mon Jan 01, 2024 https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=9387&hilit=creationism+jupiter#p9596
_The age of darkness ended when Saturn went nova, which was likely when it encountered the Sun’s heliospheric current sheet, which goes to about the orbit of Saturn. When the train reached the orbit of Saturn, after the nova there may have been enough sunlight to make Saturn appear dim during the day, but bright at night, when the Sun was not visible. It would have taken generations for the train to go from one planetary orbit to another, such as from Uranus’ orbit to Saturn’s and then to Jupiter’s etc.
_Cardona thought Saturn left the train at the asteroid belt. If so, Earth might have frozen over, unless Jupiter was in the lead the whole time, so that Jupiter’s warmth would have kept Earth from freezing after Saturn left. Also, the linear arrangement of the train suggests to me that, if Jupiter was on the train, it was probably in the lead, since a linear train coming from outside the Kuyper belt would likely have been more stable with the heaviest object in front. Talbott has suggested that Jupiter accompanied Earth and Venus to an orbit close to Venus before moving back out to its present orbit. If Jupiter encountered Earth at the time of Abraham, then it may have been on an elliptical orbit between Saturn’s and Earth’s present orbit.
_[Image] {The size of the Sun seen from different planetary orbits} https://calgary.rasc.ca/sun_and_transits.htm
_Younger Dryas impacts occurred about 4,600 years ago at the asteroid belt and ended the Ice Age and Saturn departed, ending the Golden Age. Civilizations began in commemoration of the Saturn alignment & to beg for Saturn’s return. The Jupiter escort lasted a few decades or centuries. Some major impacts occurred about 4,300 years ago causing megatsunamis (as described by OzGeographics Youtube channel). Jupiter was on an elliptical orbit apparently, bringing it back close to Earth in Abraham’s time, maybe 1953 BC, causing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah etc.