https://openclipart.org/detail/151069/star%20circle
NOTE: 2 new videos near the end
This is from https://saturniancosmology.org/othergroup/thoth/thoiii13.txt & https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1042
__STAR WORDS, A Kronia discussion
__STAR. TED BOND says: I have just discovered that throughout the whole range of the Indo-European language group, the words for star are cognate, starting (!) with the Sanskrit 'star' (yes!). It is clear that these words are also cognate with many of the names (Ishtar, Astarte, Asherah, Ashteroth) of the goddess identified with the planet Venus. The radiant Venus may have been at one time the only star-shaped light visible in the sky, and the star-words may be derived from the proper name rather than vice versa. A most extraordinary thing however, is that the word 'disaster' said to derive, via French from the _Italian_ disastro derived in turn from the Latin 'astrum', a star OR planet. But 'dis-' is a _Latin_ prefix signifying deviation. Is there no attestation for a Latin 'disastrum' (deviating star or planet)? (The suggestion here should be obvious.)
The Shorter Oxford Dictionary (based on the O.E.D.) does not mention an Italian origin for the French, but goes directly from the French to Latin 'astrum' and Greek 'astron'. In fact, according to this dictionary, until 1669, 'disaster' had the sense 'an obnoxious planet'!
__INDO-EUROPEAN. ROGER WESCOTT jumps in: Ted Bond rightly perceives a connection between Indo-European {I.E.} nouns cognate with English "star" and Semitic {Sem.} names like Akkadian Ishtar. Most historical linguists, adhering to conventional chronology, either descry lexical coincidence here or derive the I.E. from the Sem. forms. I am inclined, rather, to regard the Sem. forms as borrowings from I.E., for 4 reasons: (1) these forms are wide-spread in I.E. but not in Sem.; (2)revised chronology no longer requires us to regard written Akkadian as older than Hittite; (3) I.E., unlike Sem., permits an internal etymology for "star", relating it to English "stare" and other verbs expressing strength and persistence; and (4) Afrasian language families related to Sem., such as Cushitic and Ancient Egyptian, fail to exhibit forms with this shape and meaning (as they should if the form were primarily Afrasian).
__BOOK ON PLANET NAMES. EV COCHRANE adds: As a matter of fact, I was just researching this particular issue this past month. According to Wilhelm Eilers' book on planet- names, there is no connection between the IE word "star" and the Semitic words Ishtar/Astarte/etc. As is well-known, such a derivation has been proposed on several occasions in this century but has long since been abandoned. So far as I'm aware, there is no agreed upon root for Ishtar/Astarte. According to Eilers and the other authorities I've consulted, the English word "star" is derived from the same root as "strewn", although I don't have the root in front of me at the moment. Thus I would be most interested to learn how Dr. Wescott relates "star" to the word "stare" (which root?) and which Semitic root he would offer as a source for Ishtar/Astarte.
__STAR COGNATES. ROGER clarifies: All etymologies are probabilistic at best. Besides "strew", the English forms most likely to be cognate with "star" are "strong" and "steady", to either or both of which "stare" may be related.
__VENUS STAR. EV says: It goes without saying, of course (but I'll go ahead and say it just the same), that the Saturn theory would expect a relation between early words for "star" and Venus, since Venus presented the appearance of a giant star against the backdrop of Saturn. In this sense, Venus was the original prototype for "star" and could serve as the "star" par excellence in ancient nomenclature. As I have documented elsewhere, in various languages--such as Mayan and Polynesian-- the word for "star" also means "Venus." Thus I would love to see Dr. Wescott (or anyone else) prove that the IE word "star" is cognate with Ishtar/Astarte.
__S-T-R WORDS. DAVE TALBOTT adds: Here is a personal opinion concerning S-T-R roots in the Indo- European languages. Virtually ALL are related, but in many cases the relationships will not be evident to the experts because these experts remain unaware of the archetype around which entire complexes of meanings arose. The source of the archetype was in the sky, but it is not there now, and the experts have not even suspected that a celestial reference might have existed--once- which could unify the picture completely. So they search about "down here," wrestling with concepts that cannot (on their own, in the absence of the celestial reference) be reconciled. They do not believe that "cataSTRophe" has anything to do with "STaR" because it is known that the former derives from the Greek _STRrophe_, meaning a turning or twisting motion with specific references to the turning motions of dancers in Greek choral odes. They cannot imagine any linkage between this meaning and the root concept "STRength," to which the word STaR does appear to be clearly related. Nor does the "turning" motion of dancers suggest any connection to the concept "to STaRe," with which the word STaR is also connected.
__The Saturn theory, on the other hand, reconstructs an archetype which can account for the full range of STR-meanings. The subject is Venus and Mars in conjunction, together constituting the Great Star, the prototypical star depicted in the center of the archaic "sun" god (Saturn). The radiant STReams or STRahlen [German "rays"] of this StaR are the life and "STRength" of the sun. This star can be said to "STaRe" only because it is the sun god's central eye.
__When considering the origins of the word "catastrophe" and the meaning of the Greek _strophe_, it is inappropriate for the experts to ignore the connection of sacred dances to celestial phenomena, since all such ritual performances repeated critical junctures in the lives of GODS. The turning, twisting motion (_strophe_) of the prototypical star is legendary and is the basis of the global connection of this star, Venus, to the simple curl, spiral, and whorl.
__And speaking of the turning motion of Venus, if cataSTRophe is in fact connected to the same root as STaR, then so must the word apoSTRophe, since it expresses the same Greek root. The expected connection is definitely there. Aphrodite (Venus) was CALLED Apostrophia. A loose counterpart would be the Latin Venus as Verticordia--the turning or whirling heart. Our apostrophe is a mark or STRoke made with a STRophe or turning motion. Its form is virtually identical to the more elementary forms of the ancient Sumerian Venus-sign. And of course it has the same form as our COMMA which is surely linked to the "cometary" COMA of the Great Star. The archetypal Great Star is strictly synonymous with the archetypal Great Comet, But what is unified at the level of archetypes is too easily fragmented with the specialization and fragmentation of language in the ABSENCE of the original celestial references.
__To sort through the maze of modern words expressing the S-T-R root I would STaRt with these most fundamental associations of the Great Star:
1. It is the life, power, glory, strength, and majesty of the archaic sun god: the god's central, radiant eye, heart, and soul. In rites and symbols of kingship it will be represented as the feminine _anima_ of kings, the very force which Jung himself identified with the goddess Venus. The radiant streamers of the central star, the "Queen of heaven", ANIMATE the sun god. In the waxing and waning of these streamers in the daily cycle, the ancient symbolists saw the nuances of "life"--of being and non- being. I cannot see how the Latin _exsiSTeRe_ from which our word "existence" is derived, could have its root in any concept other than the "appearance" or "coming out" of the STaR that was the life of the sun god. It also seems abundantly clear that our word "is", Latin _est_, Greek _esti_, Sanskrit _asti_ related to the life-giving "presence" of the central star.
2. The definitive motion of Venus is represented pictographically by the curl, spiral, and whorl. That is the motion to which to the Greek STRophe must be referred. Hence, the STRophe cannot be legitimately separated from the language of the Great Star.
3. The dominant activity of the Great Star includes scattering and clearing. The explosion of radiating material is a STRewing of luminous ejecta into surrounding space, but in the subsequent clearing of the sky, the Great Star is the "broom" (comet) sweeping away the clouds of chaos. The broom is a clump of STRaw, German STRoh, an acknowledged hieroglyph for the COMET. (The hieroglyphic twisted STRoh or STRaw of the "comet" will be the STRahlen, or STReaming radiance.)
4. The coming into existence (Latin _exsiSTeRe_) of the Great Star is the first "activity" in the history of the gods. The first form of "divinity" in Mesopotamia is the Sumerian sign of An. It is the 8-pointed star, signifying the "life" and "radiance" in the center of An. The "tears" shed by the central, solitary "Eye" of Atum in the opening event of the Egyptian creation legend will denote the same celestial form. The event means (in the words of the Egyptians themselves) "the beginning of coming into existence".) In calling this central star the "GREAT star" we refer specifically to its role as the "first", the primeval model, the prototype. Invariably, cosmic history will STaRt with this effusion of radiant STReamers or STRahlen. Most fundamentally, our word "STaRt" means the beginning of motion or activity, and that is a core concept in the Great Star imagery.
__CATASTROPHIC WORD ORIGINS, A Kroniatalk Discussion
__Roger Wescott said (previously): ... The word "comma" has a root "kop" ("to strike or mark"). So there is a semantic connection with "apostrophe" et al., even though that connection isn't morphological. All best! --Roger
__To which Mark Newbrook responded: Why are semantic connections important, if words are not cognate, or otherwise morphologically connected? I suppose RW means merely that these words were at some time in the same semantic field (when used more ‘literally’? - which is not without interest.
__DAVE TALBOTT: >From the vantage point of the Saturn model, I suspect that semantic relationships were originally much broader and more complex than generally supposed, but progressively narrowed due to distance from the original celestial references. It was these original references which made the complexity meaningful. The respective fields would include a broad range of meanings linked to identifiable celestial forms and events which are no longer visible. This is a point that needs to be illustrated concretely, and a few days ago I offered an example with respect to the "omphalos/umbilicus" and the shadow effect on Mars. Here the integrated meanings include the center, navel, nave, knob or boss, shadow, dark, red. The connections as a whole are not prompted by natural experience familiar to us today, but they would be expected under the Saturn theory.
__Dave Talbott (previously): The meaning of the root _kop_ to strike, brings the _comma_ into alignment symbolically with the Great Star/Great Comet Venus, though I would add the sense of the "break" in a linear sequence, which is the effect of both the comma and the coma (comet).
__Mark Newbrook: Is this meant seriously? A double meaning for COMMA (on what evidence?) and an etymological link with COMA/COMET (ditto)?
__Dave Talbott: Not a "double" meaning. A triple meaning (for starters), which I interpret as a reflection of broader semantic relationships than generally imagined. If my underlying assumption is correct we should find many instances in which, enigmatically, quite different roots carry forward the SAME complex of nuances. Here, the nuances would be: 1) to strike, 2) a break in a sequence, and 3) a spiraling or turning stroke or mark. In the symbolism of the Great Star/Great Comet these concepts are inseparably connected. I find it significant, therefore, that both the comet and comma reflect the same complex of ideas or functions, despite the fact that natural experience today seems to offer little or no support for the integrated meanings. I also SUSPECT an etymological connection of _kop_(comma) and _kom_ (coma, comet). I've suggested privately to others that we should look for the possibility of an archaic feminine and masculine relationship between the two roots, reflecting the relationship between the masculine and feminine aspects of the Great Star. Remember that the archetypal "star" represents the conjunction of Mars and Venus--the masculine is lodged within the feminine, then separates to become an independent power. Since both conjunction and separation (the famous "birth of the hero", for example) are so prominent in the symbolism of the hero and goddess, I simply cannot believe that language would fail to reflect this relationship in very fundamental ways. On this question I'll have a lot more to say and am prepared to voice a hundred "suspicions" that may or may not prove fruitful.
__Roger Wescott (private note): Dave, linguists who recognize consonantal apophony accept kop- and kom- as related, like pa/ma or skip/skim in English.
__DAVE: This revelation accords so well with my original suspicions that I would like to pursue the connection further, with specific reference to the feminine and masculine nuances of the Great Star. The radiating "splendor" of the Great Star is the _kom_, generally a feminine principle. Is it possible that the goddess' counterpart, the warrior-hero, might reveal an archaic relationship to _kop_ as the head, the one who wears the _kom_ as hair, headdress, or crown, and wields the _kom_ as a weapon or emblem of power and authority? When you think about it, it's hard not to notice that the p- and m- sounds do seem to carry respective masculine and feminine associations (as in pa and ma for that matter). So my first guess would be that the principle of apophany Roger noted did indeed have its reference in the conjunction of male and female aspects in the Great Star.
__>From Pam Hanna: One small comment on Dave T's article which I wanted to mention - about the word "sacred" - not to contradict "holy" & "wholeness" but to insert that 'sacer' (from my Partridge 'Word Origins') has 3 important full compounds: 'sacerdos' a priest; 'sacrificium,' an offering to a god; 'sacrilegus,' a stealer of sacred things. Sacerdotal, sacristy, sacrament, - all relate to sacrifice, i.e. sacred does mean 'holy' and may mean 'wholeness,' but I believe the wholeness would derive from sacrifice. The priest is sacrificer, and he sacrifices in the sacristy which is holy because that's where he sacrifices. "Sacramentus" is "...a deposit made to the Gods, hence, from the accompanying oath...." Hyam Maccoby stressed this . . . in *The Sacred Executioner.* And I believe it relates directly to Catastrophic word origins. We've already established that one of the human reactions to the polar configuration was to initiate blood sacrifice. They couldn't feel holy and whole without blood sacrifice, que no?
Michael Armstrong via Thunderbolts.info
youtube.com/watch?v=1eoWhkIHUnU
Venus' light was variable, from 2>3>4>8>16 rays, with 4 & 8 prolonged
eight (as in 8-rayed Venus) represented radiance
no eight = night = no light = no El (Saturn God) = Noel
ho shi (Japanese) = direction four (4 rays, 4 directions) = star
End of Golden Age involved: loss of telepathy; quadrupling of Earth's gravity
{Language was needed when telepathy was lost; large land animals couldn’t survive in stronger gravity}
Charles Kos on Ancient Phoenicians & PN/BN/FN Words
youtube.com/watch?v=AY7BXVNos3k
Phoenicia
pound
pond
pence
pfennig
pen
pin
punt = boat
Pontic
pondus = weight
public = goods distribution
phoenetic (Greek) = shouter on a ship
{phonetic}
phone
{Phoenix}
boat
bone
bun
bounty
bona = poenia = goods
Bon = religion
bonum = good
bonus
boon = blessing
Bon = Pan
ban = naval blockade
Po land = Phoenician land
Po river = Phoenician river
Polotask in Belarus
Punt = God's land = land of Punics
Pu = good
Pan = world (Phoenicia ruled the world)
Jesus = carpenter = (in Egyptian) FNF
(Jesus sailed to Britain with Joseph of Arimathea)
(Jesus collected fishermen = sailors)
Baal = bull = Bel {= God}
Baalbek = bull burg = city of the bull (god)
Bog = pig god (thus, pig taboo) (Aryans once worshiped pigs)
Kenani (Canaan) (related to Phoenicia)
gan = igon = gone
gana = to go = those who go
can = can do = can make
channel